Virginia Tech Shooter Was Korean

And his name was Cho Seung-Hui. While I'd seen comments in several places anticipating as much, from 2channelers attributing it to 火病 ("fire illness") or supposed excess consumption of kimchi, to a Sepia Mutiny commenter claiming that

Koreans are the most hot-headed and macho of east asians. They are also sick and tired of losing their korean girlfriends to white men with an asian fetish.

a remark not entirely unsupported by Michael Hurt's statements, namely

To my surprise, all of the university officials cited incident after incident of Korean male graduate students who seemed to have trouble adjusting, often got into fights with other students in the living spaces, and were often the source of trouble in dealing with romantic relationships gone bad or women in general, especially when they involved Korean females dating non-Koreans.

I'll leave the stereotyping and armchair psychoanalysis to others and simply point out one clearcut, objective reason for suspecting that the shooter was of South Korean descent: eyewitness reports of the cool and calculating manner in which the killer carried out his murders, as well the sheer body account he managed to accumulate, immediately suggested someone with a level of rigorous military training that only South Korean males can generally be expected to have out of all nationalities in the region. This Cho Seung-Hui guy was no spray-and-pray teenager emptying belt after belt of ammunition using a fully-automatic rifle, but a cold-blooded killer efficiently using only Glock 19 and Walther P-22 handguns to execute his (so far) 33 victims. I suppose at least some ROK Army trainers can take a perverse pride in their success in turning out such a killing machine.

PS: An idiot called Andrew Leonard seizes on my pointing out the indisputable fact that nearly all Korean males are duty-bound to receive 2 years of rigorous military training as an excuse to advocate censorship of views he doesn't like, not even stopping to consider amidst his "facts" that Cho Seung-Hui, like many other young Korean men living abroad, might have returned to his home country to get the service obligation out of the way, explaining why he was a 23-year old college senior ... But what are such considerations to hysterical types eager to make accusations of prejudice under the flimsiest of pretences?

Comments

[marktgarten]

I am a potty-mouthed idiot who came on here to show that Leonard's readers are even more stupid than he is.

[Abiola]

If you had two brain cells to rub together, you'd have realized the futility of coming to insult me on a site I own and control, but then again, a writer driven by sanctimonious knee-jerk emotionalism in place of reason can't be expected to draw a readership with more than a room-temperature IQ.

What would truly be shocking would be for either an idiot like Leonard or mouth-breathers like you who seem to hang on his every word to actually try to construct a calm, *reasoned* argument explaining what was so unreasonable about anything I've said, rather than trying to pass off your anger at the fact that I not only have the right but also the means to voice my opinion as more than the logic-free venting on your part that it is. The thing is, it's patently clear that the reason extremely insular fools like you and Leonard resort to ad-hominems is precisely because such an endeavor is beyond your intellectual means: perhaps Andrew Leonard might care to tell me what the fact that I was born in and currently reside in the UK tells him or anyone else about what I could and and couldn't have done during all the years in between ...

[Andrew]

"a level of rigorous military training that only South Korean males can generally be expected to have out of all nationalities in the region."

I don't see how that follows - lots of countries have mandatory military service.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_service

and Cho could have avoided his by not going back to South Korea (right?).

[Abiola]

"lots of countries have mandatory military service."

Andrew,

1 - How many of them are in East Asia? We'd already known for some time that the shooter was of "Asian origin", so going by the American usage of the word "Asian", that already eliminates the greater proportion of said countries.

2 - How many of them are rigorous enough that the average person who's gone through said programs can handle firearms as well as this guy did? The average, say, Russian conscript certainly wouldn't know how.

"Cho could have avoided his by not going back to South Korea (right?)."

Sure, he could have, but the prior probabilities speak against it, which is what is at issue here. I think it highly unlikely that someone sufficiently attached to being an ROK citizen to have held US permanent residency for 15 years without bothering to get US citizenship would have avoided stepping foot in South Korea since entering his teens, and it is a well-established fact that the ROK is so insistent on mandatory military service that even bonafide Americans with Korean ancestry can find themselves essentially press-ganged into the service against their will. If I recall, there was even a recent case of a US permanent resident who'd enlisted in the US Army being charged with desertion because the ROK Army drafted him on a visit to the country, that's how serious it is.

There's no certainty that this guy trained with the ROKA, but all things considered it is certainly a reasonable supposition, and I'd say an extremely likely one. People without serious training just don't handle firearms that profeciently all of a sudden, and nothing I've read so far suggests he was known as an obvious NRA-supporter, arguing against his training on a US firing range.

[Won Joon Choe]

As I noted in my reply to Leonard at the Salon, the SK government commandeers not merely U.S. permanent residents but actual U.S. citizens into the military. Abiola's assumption that Mr. Cho was a vet of the RoK army--whether true or not--was reasonable.

[Abiola]

Here's a nice little true story for Andrew Leonard and company to sputter at:

http://www.csulb.edu/~d49er/spring1997/v3n23/v3n23nkorea.html

Funnily enough, the pseudonymous "Jimmy Park" was also 8 years old when he came to the United States. I'd love to see Leonard & co. square this guy's experiences with their smug assumption that Cho Seung-Hui couldn't possibly have done his mandatory ROK Army service by virtue of having come to the US 15 years ago.

[bowloframen]

Let me begin with this: I am not a regular reader of your blog, I have never heard of it before, and I was only turned onto it through Andrew Leonard on Salon. With that out of the way, I have to respond to your blog entry by pointing out how misinformed it is.

First of all, why does the "cool and calculating" demeanor of the killer suggests someone who underwent mandatory military service in a foreign country, and not, say, someone who simply had a fascination with guns, or someone who watched a lot of violent movies, or even someone who had undergone voluntary military training here in the United States? Why not wait a few days or a few hours, even, for more information to be released about Cho before prognosticating about his identity? Or at least, why not read the articles on the attack thoroughly to understand the known facts? (After all, the articles all mention that Cho had been living in the United States since eight.)

As for your caveat that Cho might have served in the South Korean military even if he had been living in the States for quite a while, as far as I know, the chances of this happening is quite slim. The prospect of it happening is certainly discussed in the Korean community. (Horror stories about graduating high school seniors who visit South Korea before their first year in college, only to be stopped at the airport on the return flight and conscripted into the army before they even realize what's happening, etc.) But, again, as far as I know, it usually only happens to those who visit South Korea after they reach the age of mandatory service. (I might also point out that the article you linked to is 9 years old, and I'm not sure this practice still goes on.) But is there a chance that Cho was indeed drafted into the South Korean army like you suggest? Sure, I guess. But I would still describe that as a very slim chance.

And to your accusation that Leonard is advocating censorship of your views on his article: a clear and resounding, HUH? First, if he wanted to censor you, why did he link to you in his Salon article? Second, is an intelligent and informed engagement with your opinions the same thing as censoring your opinions?

And lastly, I might point out that, funnily enough, as you might say, I, too, happen to be a 23-year-old college student of South Korean descent who came to the States at the age of 9 (Cho came when he was 8). No, I have never served in the South Korean army, and no, I have never been threatened by the South Korean government for that reason. I hope you can respond to my post and Leonard's bigger points without making a misleading and rather hopeless argument about Cho's identity as a South Korean.

[Abiola]

"bowloframen"

1 - To begin with, you don't exactly do your argument any service by talking of Leonard's "bigger points": he advances none whatsoever, beyond expressing outrage at what I had to say. That Cho Seung-Hui has been resident in the USA since 1992 in no way says anything about his likelihood of having done military service, anymore than you can guess anything about my life history from my being born in and currently residing in the UK. It's a dumb argument borne only of extreme insularity to assume that a person who's moved countries will never venture outside wherever he makes his new home once he's there - in fact, nowadays the immigrant who never goes back to visit "the Old Country" is the oddity, and in any case subsequent reporting has established that Cho *has* subsequently traveled out of the USA since arriving in 1992. Leonard is full of it.

2 - In response to your statement to whit

"why does the "cool and calculating" demeanor of the killer suggests someone who underwent mandatory military service in a foreign country, and not, say, someone who simply had a fascination with guns, or someone who watched a lot of violent movies, or even someone who had undergone voluntary military training here in the United States?"

To begin with, a *foreigner* is a lot more likely to have served with a *foreign* army than with an American one, so your questioning about why I didn't assume he was American-trained smacks of special pleading. As for your suggestion that he might have picked up his skills by watching movies, etc., that is simply ridiculous. No amount of movie watching and gun-fascination without actual practice and training will make you adept at using pistols, anymore than repeatedly watching boatloads of X-rated movies will make you a skillful lover, or watching "Top Gun" every day will make you a hot shot fighter jock.

"But, again, as far as I know, it usually only happens to those who visit South Korea after they reach the age of mandatory service. (I might also point out that the article you linked to is 9 years old, and I'm not sure this practice still goes on.)"

If you bothered to carefully read the "old" article I linked to, you'd have noticed that "Jimmy Park" was NOT in fact in Korea when the Korean government began pushing him to enroll in the Army, and he was only 17 at the time; if you followed the Korea Times, the Chosun Ilbo or any number of Korean papers with English editions, you'd also be aware that the ROK Army *still* very much tries to press any males of Korean descent into service that it can get its hands on, even their being of foreign citizenship and/or in the service of foreign armies be damned.

"And to your accusation that Leonard is advocating censorship of your views on his article: a clear and resounding, HUH? First, if he wanted to censor you, why did he link to you in his Salon article?"

To express his deep regret that he can't silence me, of course. That *is* literally what he wrote with his own keyboard in reference to myself, so why are you trying to deny it?

"Second, is an intelligent and informed engagement with your opinions the same thing as censoring your opinions?"

There was nothing "intelligent and informed" about the insults Leonard flung in my direction, and if he had the slightest actual clue about Korea beyond whatever fairy tales he'd prefer to believe, he wouldn't have bothered building up a head of steam over what he'd have known to be a factual statement: one might just as well become outraged over the suggestion that the average Israeli is more likely to know how to handle an assault rifle than the average Englishman, that's just how stupid Leonard's "engagement" is.

"No, I have never served in the South Korean army, and no, I have never been threatened by the South Korean government for that reason."

Good for you, but you are just a single individual, and there are very many testimonies which go against yours; what is more, since you're anonymous, I have no way of verifying any claims you make about your citizenship or life experiences, and people passing themselves off as something they're not in order to "win" an argument is routine on the Internet. Even granting that you're for real, at most I'd say you've just been lucky thus far, or otherwise your parents officially renounced your Korean citizenship on your behalf before it could become a problem.

"I hope you can respond to my post and Leonard's bigger points without making a misleading and rather hopeless argument about Cho's identity as a South Korean."

You *do* see the absurdity of you calling my argument "misleading and rather hopeless" in the wake of both my posting an actual newspaper story suggesting otherwise *and* testimony speaking to the plausibility of my reasoning by a person who - unlike yourself - actually *is* publicly, verifiedly known to be a South Korean citizen? I'll leave you to consider what such blatantly counterfactual rhetorical flourishes do to your credibility ...

[Andrew]

"How many of them are in East Asia?"

Singapore has conscription - I used to know a guy who had to go back to fulfill his requirement. But anyway the point is moot, because this article says he graduated from high school at age 19 in 2003, so if he was a senior this year, he would have had to spend the last 4 years at university.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-shooter18apr18,0,702929,full.story?coll=la-home-headlines

[Abiola]

"Singapore has conscription - I used to know a guy who had to go back to fulfill his requirement."

I did think of Singapore (and Taiwan, for that matter), but weighted the probabailities against either country simply on the basis of population: there are many more Koreans than Singaporeans or Taiwanese, and the ratio only increases when you consider the relative sizes of their student populations in the US.

"But anyway the point is moot, because this article says he graduated from high school at age 19 in 2003, so if he was a senior this year, he would have had to spend the last 4 years at university."

Which still leaves the question of where he acquired sufficient expertise at handling small arms to put the TEC-9 and sawed-off shotgun wielding Klebold and Harris to shame all by himself ... Nothing I've seen anywhere indicates he was known for engaging in firearms practice as a hobby, so where did he learn?

[brookurk]

abiola lapite,
Schools in Korea begin their school year in january(or feb) and America's school year begins in the fall (aug or sept)... so when people come over to America, they're kind of caught in the middle, so either they go down a grade or move up the grade (hope your not confused). So, since most of them struggle with English, they chose to be placed in lower grade~ .. In Cho's case, he went down a grade... so it is possible that he is a senior in college. Alot of immigrants born on 1984 are senior in college right now and waiting to graduate in May.
And I do respect your theories~ BUT, Korea's millitary program is about 2 1/2 years... soo if he did go back to serve his terms, he woulda been ALOT older... So I hope that this helped your research a little better.

[Abiola]

"brookurk",

Thanks for the comments. It's nice to see someone give a differing opinion without descending to name-calling.

[Won Joon Choe]

Bowloframen & Brookurk,

I feel I have said too much already on this topic in my name then is prudent. Nonetheless, I feel compelled to point out something:

The original issue is NOT whether Cho served in the Korean military, but whether Abiola's initial guess that the unannounced (East) Asian gunman was likely to be a Korean was a reasonable guess or, in the mind of a certain Mr. Leonard, racist.

Given what Abiola knew at the time: e.g. the gunman was (East) Asian, seemingly an expert marksman, that South Korea has a highly well-trained conscript military, South Korean foreign students are overwhelmingly more numerous than their other East Asian counterparts in the U.S., his guess was reasonable.

In the least, to imply that Abiola was a bigot and to question his intelligence on the basis of these facts--as Mr. Leonard did--was completely uncalled for.

[paulkimchee]

I am an immigrant from Korea to the United States. I immigrated from Korea when I was two years old and obtained a green card. When I turned 17 years old, my Korean passport was frozen and I was not allowed to leave the country. They did this to keep my secure in America so they could call me for ROK's mandatory military service. When Koreans go to the military, they can actually choose when they want to go starting from when they graduate high school until their late thirties. Most people go in their early twenties after the first or second year of university. I am 20 years old, and I have not gone to the Korean military. Most Korean-American immigrants don't go to the military because they will be naturalized anyway. It is safe to assume that he never went to the Korean military. Being a Korean man, the Korean temper does exist. I don't have it myself, but I know plenty of other Korean-Americans, as well as Korean natives that have it. Korean American men are extremely jealous. However, the the shooter's mental state probably amplified his "Korean Temper" and acted as the catalyst for him to act.