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August 01, 2006

Comments

Kerala

Given the reaction to "The Passion" as being anti-semitic, which basically contained the factuality of the Xian Gospels. It wouldn't be too far to see that the Jews, at least those in the ADL, were labeling the entire creed of Xianity anti-semitic.

So without agreeing with his outburst, it's easy to see it as engendered of the frustration he felt about the slanders when 'The Passion' was released.

Even Jackie Mason on Fox News, called the cast of official anti semite hunters at the ADL inter alia, dead-enders.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gct84oE5DEE

Abiola

"Given the reaction to "The Passion" as being anti-semitic, which basically contained the factuality of the Xian Gospels."

Has it ever occurred to you that the "Xian Gospels" you mention *are* antisemitic? Try reading them sometime, you might be unpleasantly surprised: assertions like "The Jews" killed Christ and had therefore been forsaken by God, etc.

By the way, either provide solid, independent archeological and historical evidence supporting the "factuality" of the Gospels, or refrain from writing as if this were a self-evident matter.

"So without agreeing with his outburst, it's easy to see it as engendered of the frustration he felt about the slanders when 'The Passion' was released."

I don't buy this line of apologetics in the slightest: being called a "racist" or a "sexist" - as many nutjobs are quick to do when losing an argument - has never tempted me in the slightest to indulge in racial or sexual slurs, nor do I know of many other decent people who have been.

"Even Jackie Mason on Fox News, called the cast of official anti semite hunters at the ADL inter alia, dead-enders."

I don't have time to waste on appeals to authority: all this proves is that Jackie Mason is a senile old fool.

Let me repeat myself: Gibson said what he did about Jews because it was what had always been in his heart. A little criticism from the ADL doesn't turn decent folk into paranoid antisemites.

Kerala

So, you are basically saying that by the very fact of practicing their religion, Christians are being anti-semitic!?!

In practical terms taking and promulgating this view is almost designed to engender anti-semitism from people who have never even had a bad thought about the Jews.

btw. What would you have a Xian do, leave their church an renounce the new-testament, because of its teachings?

Andrew

"So, you are basically saying that by the very fact of practicing their religion, Christians are being anti-semitic!?!"

The "Christ-killer" accusation is right there in plain text in Matthew 27:25 ("His blood be on us, and on our children"). Make of that what you will. Most modern Christians have renounced the "Christ-killer" accusation, even the Catholic Church at Vatican II. Notably, Mel Gibson is a Catholic who rejects the reforms of Vatican II.

Abiola

"So, you are basically saying that by the very fact of practicing their religion, Christians are being anti-semitic!?!"

Christianity *is* an antisemitic religion, and only an ignoramus would deny it. Why else do you think Jews were persecuted in Europe with Church backing and encouragement right up until the Enlightenment broke the hold of religion?

"In practical terms taking and promulgating this view is almost designed to engender anti-semitism from people who have never even had a bad thought about the Jews."

Nonsense. Only someone pre-inclined to hate Jews would begin doing so because the implications of his own "sacred" texts are pointed out to him. It's a fine trick to blame a bigot's bigotry on his having the sources of it pointed out to him, as if refusing to pander to your preconceived notions were wrong.

"btw. What would you have a Xian do, leave their church an renounce the new-testament, because of its teachings?"

You seem to think that's a bad or even outrageous idea, but that's exactly what I've done. People who refuse to part ways with a superstition which teaches them to hate others because of something their distant ancestors did are either cowards or bigots.

"The "Christ-killer" accusation is right there in plain text in Matthew 27:25 ("His blood be on us, and on our children")."

Indeed, and not just there. From John 8:44 we have

"You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires",

while I Thessalonians 2:14-15 tells us

"For you, brothers, became imitators of God's churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own countrymen the same things those churches suffered from the Jews, who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out",

and I won't even begin to mention all the Church "fathers" like John Chrysostom or Martin Luther who are still respected by millions of Christians despite their raging antisemitism. It is the height of dishonesty or ignorance to argue that stuff like this

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/luther-jews.html

is not the direct fruit of a "New" Testament which says the Jews have been forsaken by God for killing his only son, and their place now taken in God's affections by Christians.

Orisa

"btw. What would you have a Xian do, leave their church an renounce the new-testament, because of its teachings?"

*You seem to think that's a bad or even outrageous idea, but that's exactly what I've done. People who refuse to part ways with a superstition which teaches them to hate others because of something their distant ancestors did are either cowards or bigots.*

Well that's a rare reason for leaving the religion of one's birth. Usually it's the realisation that one has been thought a load of incoherent bollocks during one's childhood. But to leave one's religion because a particular creed contains something counter to your commitment to a political view point is interesting.

Also I wonder if you think that Judaism should be rejected, because of the Torah injunction to wipe out the Amalek.

viz. "2 Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I have noted what Amalek did to Israel in opposing them on the way when they came up out of Egypt. 3 Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey." (1 Sam. 15:2-3).

Andrew

I wouldn't have thought of being opposed to anti-Semitism as "a political view point" - seems to me that not hating an entire people for something a few of their ancestors supposedly did is a point of basic human decency, not politics.

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