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July 16, 2006

Comments

Matt

At its worse it leads to terrorists living in the west trying to breed their own tax payer funded armies.

http://www.occidentalism.org/?p=249

(Abiola, your site is not accepting links for some reason)

Abiola

I had to switch to manual approval of trackbacks to deal with all the spam I was getting.

gene berman

Abiola:

I think it somewhat a stretch to represent the attitude of the welfarists as "it will have little or no effect;" rather, their public pronouncement is that it will have litttle or no NEGATIVE effect and very definite positive effects (including, privately, that dependence will forge present and enduring political hegemony).

I note that the quoted source has a somewhat different interpretation of "libertarian" than would be recognizable over here. But, then, everything's relative, I'd suppose.

Oliver

Given Europe's fertility rates, why would we complain? Besides, parenting is more profitable to the community than them getting dole payments for nothing.

Abiola

"Given Europe's fertility rates, why would we complain?"

Who's "we", Kemosabe? *You* may want to support the breeding of chavs with your own funds, but leave me and other taxpayers out of it.

"Besides, parenting is more profitable to the community than them getting dole payments for nothing."

I don't know how you can even call what uneducated 16-year old mothers do "parenting", but to say that these breeders of future ASBO recipients, juvenile court attendants and incapacity benefit supplicants are more "productive" than simply beeing on the dole is laughable. In any case, here's a radical suggestion: how about simply not allowing teenagers to collect welfare at all?

Andrew Reeves

Isn't welfare in the U.K. somewhat stingier than in Scandinavia? Because if it is, I'd say that there are other cultural factors involved in the U.K.'s teen pregnancy than just the money that comes with it.

Abiola

I don't know about Scandinavia, but the big difference *does* seem to come down to welfare benefits at least as far as differences with the Netherlands are concerned (though differences in stigmatization also seem important):

http://www.famyouth.org.uk/pdfs/LDM.pdf

These girls know *precisely* what they're doing, and given their lack of ambition, firm parental guidance or any real countervailing communal pressures, it's no surprise they take what seems to be the easy option - pop out a rugrat and go straight to the front of the queue for free council housing for life and child support for the next 18 years.

Steve Edwards

It's interesting that Blair's stated desire to eradicate the "yob culture" is not going to extend to the incubators of said yobs. I can only assume that he was told by a focus group to express "concern" over this "issue", and that he doesn't really give a stuff about the disastrous effects of teenage-welfare-pregnancies - especially as they are likely to spawn a whole new generation of Labour voters.

Oliver

"but leave me and other taxpayers out of it"

I would gladly do that if said taxpayers did their reproductive duty. Europe needs European babies. Europeans no longer have the luxury to worry a lot about quality.

One might argue that the taxpayers are not reproducing due to taxes needed to support welfare dependents, but is there proof? Looking at French and German birth rates which are far apart while taxes rates are comparable, this seems not to be the case. If anything they support the conclusion that more state intervention in child rearing is working.

Abiola

"Europe needs European babies."

To do *what*, exactly? You just say this like it's obvious, and there's some magical benefit to be had by the sheer existence of "European" (I suppose you really mean "white") babies which can't be had by either importing qualified labor or exporting production through foreign investment. What gains are there to be had by the existence of Tracey and Kev collecting Jobseekers Allowance down at the local welfare office which can't be had by buying shares in firms in Mumbai and Guangdong? Why am I supposed to prefer the subsidized breeding and raising of layabouts and illiterates when the world is teeming with highly qualified and ambitious people who'd be willing to come to Europe if given a chance - simply because the local spongers are "European"?

The idea that Europe is so desperately in need of babies that taxpayers ought to shower money on every lazy dropout willing to part her legs for the first horny young idiot to come along is a preposterous belief only unthinking nativists can swallow. If the sorts of people most likely to respond to such incentives were the kind to raise highly productive offspring, they wouldn't be responsive to said incentives to begin with.

Delmore Macnamara

"Why am I supposed to prefer the subsidized breeding and raising of layabouts and illiterates when the world is teeming with highly qualified and ambitious people who'd be willing to come to Europe if given a chance - simply because the local spongers are "European"?"

If you don't like UK's tax and welfare system you are of course quite free to leave...

Abiola

And if you don't like my discontent with it you're free to take the same damn option yourself: it's as much my country as yours, asshole ...

Hell, why am I even humoring the conceit that your statements are worth a pitcher of warm spit? Your "love it or leave it" bullshit is the last line of the thin-skinned nationalist jughead without anything by way of a meaningful response to make to whatever's injured his fragile pride. Newsflash for you, buddy: there is absolutely *nothing* wrong with people criticizing even countries that aren't their own, nor does doing so entail any obligation on them to move somewhere else, so you can go stuff your nonsense where the sun don't shine.

Oliver

"What gains are there to be had by the existence of Tracey and Kev collecting Jobseekers Allowance down at the local welfare office which can't be had by buying shares in firms in Mumbai and Guangdong?"

The perpetuation of European or specifically English culture. That needs a minimum percentage of people raised in that culture. (not necessarily related by blood, but raised from a very young age).

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