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« Remembering Barbarossa | Main | We Wuz Robbed! »

June 23, 2006

Comments

Jason Soon

This may have more to do with the sorts of Muslims the UK attracts than the reactions of the same kinds of Muslims to their societies. For instance, assuming the UK has the most liberal immigration policies of the lot (which is plausible) and gets proportionally more inbred Pakistani villagers whereas France gets more middle class Algerians ...

Scott Wickstein

"A significant majority viewed western populations as selfish, arrogant, greedy and immoral. Just over half said westerners were violent. While the overwhelming majority of European Muslims said westerners were respectful of women, fewer than half British Muslims agreed."

Well, Theodore Dalrymple would agree with most of this, too.

Brian

I've been a big a defender of moderate Islam as anyone but it's astonishing to me that there are so many Muslim immigrants in Europe who are so angry and bitter. I understand that there is certainly discrimination against them in European societies but really, if thinks are so horrible and unbearable, why don't they move to a majority Muslim nation. If they don't want to adopt western values, that's fine. But when I lived in Muslim countries, I tried to respect their values as much as possible. Why can't Muslims living in western countries do the same? I think most in North America do. I'm not sure why it's different inEurope.

Abiola

"Well, Theodore Dalrymple would agree with most of this, too."

Somehow I imagine that most women would take European - or even East Asian - levels of respect any day over that afforded by the adherents of Islam ...

Steve Edwards

The Guardian didn't actually report on some of the juiciest data from the Pew survey - 1/4 of British Muslims supported suicide bombings under certain circumstances, and this figure was over 1/3 for French Muslims.

Abiola

Actually, I want to touch on something Jason said earlier:

"For instance, assuming the UK has the most liberal immigration policies of the lot (which is plausible) and gets proportionally more inbred Pakistani villagers whereas France gets more middle class Algerians ..."

This argument simply doesn't hold water, as Britain's immigration laws have been much stricter than France's for quite some time, illustrated by the much larger Muslim population of the latter country. Britain as an island is much harder for Muslim immigrants to reach than France, the UK abrogated "jus soli" citizenship in 1981, whereas France still has it today, Britain cut its ties with the Indian subcontinent in 1947, and never amalgamated a Muslim land to itself as France did with Algeria, and as such the personal ties linking Britain to its Muslim former colonies are much weaker; finally, Britain has never issued an immigration amnesty for residents who enter the country illegally, again unlike France or Spain. If British Muslims are more radical in outlook than those elsewhere in Europe, it can't be due to their being drawn from less selective stock than the masses who cross the Mediterranean sea in search of better opportunities.

If anything, one would think that British Muslims, who are free of the harassment dealt out by the French police, the banishment to desolate banlieues where there misery is out of sight of the majority, and the systematic discrimination which leaves up to 60% of young Muslims unemployed in parts of France, would be fonder of their adopted country by virtue of how much better its treated them than other European countries have dealt with their fellow Muslims: coming from a more impoverished background should only make this contrasting upward mobility stand out all the more, on the assumption that it was the case.

"1/4 of British Muslims supported suicide bombings under certain circumstances, and this figure was over 1/3 for French Muslims."

Ah, well I guess we can all rest easy at night then!

Steve Edwards

Here is the full survey, by the by:

http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=253

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