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« A Welcome Change in Attitudes | Main | What Dixie's Children Learned »

December 07, 2005

Comments

Barkeley

For a particular website somewhere in the blogosphere (the site's name rhymes with Eugene Express), this seems to be, shall we say, an uncomfortable development. I have seen comments like

"...am dubious that this current claim will turn out to be true."

"...this is exactly the opposite of what the Jensen-Rushton theory would predict."

"a 20 IQ hit is too much. no way."

"They don't even say if the IQ hit is for homozygotes or not"

I don't believe I saw the same level of skepticism when Lahn's paper came out. And I definitely haven't seen certain people breathlessly spreading the supposed implications of this particular research even though Lahn's own finding has yet to be replicated (not that the lack of replication cast any doubt on his finding).

Abiola

"I don't believe I saw the same level of skepticism when Lahn's paper came out."

Well, of course, we already know what the facts must be, don't we, so any research which contradicts what we know must be of no merit! Still, I'm sure some of them will find a way to twist these reports to service their agenda anyway, no matter how farfetched the "logic" [sic] required to do so will need to be.

Chuckles

My initial thoughts were exactly the same when I saw the news a couple of days back. How about the fellows who keep on insisting that the evidence keeps turning out "the way it should" and hence supports their hypothesis?

[...I think it's the height of stupidity to expect a gene variant which has effect A on population X to have the same effect in population Y...]

Not to mention the myopia of the "realists" considering that they dont have any idea of how many "genes" affecting IQ exist - or their specific effects. The hullabaloo over Lahn was really quite childish - especially with regards to those who immediately generalized to intelligence. It speaks to their illiteracy, I think - more folk taxonomy and less science on their part.

Again, it says something about the bias of these people (their Kuhnian paradigm) i.e. the research they are interested in isnt going in the other direction, i.e. genes that depress IQ but are absent in non favored populations.

This is another perfect example of social narratives influencing "science".

Kevin Donoghue

Reading James Watson's "DNA" recently, I was a bit surprised to learn that his IQ score was a modest 122. That demolished (a) my last excuse for my lousy academic record and (b) what little faith I had left in IQ as a measure of anything worth bothering about.

But even if we (pretend to) take the idea seriously, doesn't it make sense that Africans would have keener brains? Their ancestors had to survive in an environment where much of the wildlife is seriously hostile, whereas mine haven't encountered anything much worse than a wild boar in a very long time.

Abiola

"doesn't it make sense that Africans would have keener brains?"

It's a theoretical possibility, but somehow I doubt it. Ignoring for the moment just how easy it is to cook up "just so stories" one way or the other (e.g. the old claim that whites were naturally more intelligent because of the harsh requirements of the European winter), the fact is that in West Africa - the most densely populated part of the continent - many peoples have been farming for at least as long as groups like the Germanic tribes or the Yayoi settlers of Japan, and agriculturalists tend to be so fertile that dangers like predation don't make any real difference to population growth.

My expectation is that for every gene of this sort we'll find in one group, there'll be another which has been selected to make up for its downside, with everything coming out in the wash across "races." To the extent that certain groups are somehow intellectually advantaged by selection, they're likely to be much smaller than entire "races", e.g. perhaps the San of Southern Africa, the Yanomamo of South America and the peoples of Papua New Guinea are the true intellectual supermen of our species, and they've just never had the chance to strut their stuff in a modern context yet.

Jim

"little faith I had left in IQ as a measure of anything worth bothering about."

No lie. The core silliness of the whole debate is all the whiote coat seriosity of the claims and counterclaims about the impeccabililty of methods when the basic issue is as yet so poorly defined. What exactly is intelligence? It seems to be treated as a static trait, when it could just as validly be described as an activity. That BTW is a better etymology of the word anyway. This is one reason the tests are such poor instruments; how do you measure something you can't even define?

The "race realists" are about as much of an issue as UFO enthusiasts, but this crap does affect real people when it comes to public educational policy.

"Intelligence" literally means "plucking [from] among" , making sense out of a tangle. Teachers know from careers of experience how little this is some inherent trait and how much it has to do with prior experience - a third language is always easier to learn even if it is completely unlike your second language, music students have a leg up on math, on and on. And the tests themsleves have to be written in one form of the language rather than another, (I know kids should learn the academic standard of the language, but intelligence tests should test intelligence rather than language.) and that introduces a bias, use these examples from real life rather than others, and there's another bias, and so on.

This is one big reason that the tests are such biased instruments. How can you correct for differing levels and varieties of life experience in formulating your test?

"But even if we (pretend to) take the idea seriously, doesn't it make sense that Africans would have keener brains? Their ancestors had to survive in an environment where much of the wildlife is seriously hostile, whereas mine haven't encountered anything much worse than a wild boar in a very long time."

1. Saxons?
2. And other than the English, there isn't much more vicious than a wild boar. A boar will open you up like a trout.

David B

For the benefit of those who may be mystified by some of the above comments, the following comments were made (not by me) when this story was reported in GNXP:

"The Dallas news article says that they have not published this yet in a scientific journal. They said that the data was presented at a meeting in North Carolina. Randy Jirtle is a researcher at Duke who has been studying the IGF2 receptor for many years. The IGF2R gene is imprinted in some mammals but not in primates. The IGF2R gene had previously been connected to IQ by Plomin's group in 1998, Plomin retracted the claim when a much larger cohort failed to show any association.

I am dubious that this current claim will turn out to be true. They measured 300 ten year old caucasian children, the effect was only seen in boys and the variant allele presumably linked to lower IQ is present in about 25% of caucasians. Thus it appears that the group with the putative effect was only about 40 boys. In ten year olds the environment still accounts for a large portion of the variation in IQ. Also they said that the variant allele had a massive effect of depressing average IQ by 20 points--yet they had two boys with the supposedly deleterious variant allele who had IQs of 160 (that does not sound too plausible). The lower IQ-associated variant allele was absent in Africans and present at higher levels in Asians than in Caucasians, this is exactly the opposite of what the Jensen-Rushton theory would predict."


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