Flickr

  • www.flickr.com
    Abiola_Lapite's photos More of Abiola_Lapite's photos

« Do Not Adjust Your Monitor | Main | Hubbard's Vendetta »

July 03, 2005

Comments

Jason Soon

goddamned, are those guys blind or poofs?

Andrew

"goddamned, are those guys blind or poofs?"

I think it's fairly safe to say that we 'poofs' simply don't care one way or another about whether the Williams sisters are attractive or not.

Factory

(is it me or is this edit box really small?)

Hmm..
- this confirms a theory of mine that you get some of your stories from Fark.. :)
- Fark has quite alot of trolls, who will specifically say obscene things to get a reaction, so I don't think that they represent the everyman
- Fark is far more sexist than it is racist. _Every_ woman who is mentioned will primarily be viewed as a sex object, other attributes are secondary.

I personally don't find it racist to have a particular preference in regards to partners, anymore than it is sexist to only want female partners.
If it were so, then given the very low rates of inter-racial marriage then one would have to conclude that racism is rampant.

Abiola

"I personally don't find it racist to have a particular preference in regards to partners, anymore than it is sexist to only want female partners."

That's not what we're talking about, is it?

"given the very low rates of inter-racial marriage then one would have to conclude that racism is rampant."

It is.

Andrew

"I personally don't find it racist to have a particular preference in regards to partner"

Depends on what the motives for that preference are. If you just happen to find Asian women attractive, that's fine. But if you like them because you have this idea in your head that they're all submissive and obedient, that's another matter. Unfortunately, it's pretty difficult to untangle these motives.

Factory

""given the very low rates of inter-racial marriage then one would have to conclude that racism is rampant."
It is."
Well I'll disagree with you for that point.

Abiola

" Well I'll disagree with you for that point."

Too bad for you that the facts are on my side, and I've even written about research studies done on this issue several times in the past. Don't let that stop you from clinging to whatever position you desire, though ...

dsquared

The rates of "interracial marriage" aren't really all that low, except among racists.

hercules

"I was sure that the vicious outbursts about the Williams sisters' looks were both probably fairly typical and motivated by racism"

I'll concede the latter point - that vicious outbursts about the Willams sisters' looks are likely motivated by racism. But are such "vicious outbursts" typical ? Dunno really. Not in my experience, at least. Perhaps, as you'd said, political correctness has a role to play here.


"If you just happen to find Asian women attractive, that's fine. But if you like them because you have this idea in your head that they're all submissive and obedient, that's another matter."

They may not be submissive and obedient, but a large chunk are less demanding of their partners. No, it's not a racial thing, it's cultural. Let's not conflate the preference for certain cultural characteristics with racism.

"The rates of "interracial marriage" aren't really all that low, except among racists."

Since you're talking about the UK, using your own logic, South Asians probably have a significant chunk of racists - they have the lowest exogamy rates in the UK, I gather.

Abiola

"using your own logic, South Asians probably have a significant chunk of racists"

Who says they don't? Racism isn't a white monopoly, after all.

Andrew

"They may not be submissive and obedient, but a large chunk are less demanding of their partners. No, it's not a racial thing, it's cultural. Let's not conflate the preference for certain cultural characteristics with racism."

Although preference for Asian cultural characteristics is, indeed, logically distinguishable from preference for Asian physical features, in many cases of "yellow fever," they go hand-in-hand. It's not I who's conflating culture with race - it's the guy with the Asian fetish. The desire for Asian women who are "less demanding" (i.e., easier to dominate) goes together all too often with the attraction to the petite form, the small feet, "exotic" eyes, "demure" face, and so on - it forms a whole cognitive package.

Obviously, it is possible to be attracted to Asian women without falling into this sort of rank objectification and stereotyping. But sometimes...

Andrew

"Racism isn't a white monopoly, after all."

I know several Chinese parents who have a very explicit hierarchy of who they want their children to marry: 1. Chinese, 2. white (this is already quite far behind #1), 3. Japanese/Korean, 4. maaaaybe Southeast Asian, 5. all others (black, Hispanic, probably South Asian as well) unacceptable. It's quite shocking really.

Abiola

Andrew,

The sort of heirarchy you mention is precisely what I had in mind: I'd be surprised if it wasn't widespread amongst South Asians as well, with obvious changes to accommodate themselves at the top, and refinements to account for religion and caste.

razib_the_atheist

interracial dating and marriage from asian nation.
http://www.asian-nation.org/interracial.shtml

Kenji

"I know several Chinese parents who have a very explicit hierarchy of who they want their children to marry: 1. Chinese, 2. white (this is already quite far behind #1), 3. Japanese/Korean, 4. maaaaybe Southeast Asian, 5. all others (black, Hispanic, probably South Asian as well) unacceptable. It's quite shocking really"

Very interesting---Substitute "Japanese" for "Chinese", and you accurately summarize the predominant opinion of Japanese people of my parents' generation (in their 50s).

Kenji

I don't have a good sample size to know whether or not this is a common view among Koreans---But a Korean friend of mine once told me that Korean people of his parents's generation have a significantly simpler hierarchy that goes as follows: "Koreans are okay, non-Koreans are not." He seemed to suggest that phenotypical differences mean nothing once it is established that the wife to be is not Korean. If anyone has any thoughts on this, I would be interested in hearing them.

Jim

" Well I'll disagree with you for that point."

"Too bad for you that the facts are on my side, and I've even written about research studies done on this issue several times in the past. Don't let that stop you from clinging to whatever position you desire, though ..."


"The rates of "interracial marriage" aren't really all that low, except among racists."

And guess what, as overt racism is suppressed, maybe even with a side benefit of decreasing actual racism, intermarriage rates rise. The US Army has been adamant about formal or institutional equality since the 1950's (and despite a lot of backsliding and internal struggle through the years) managed to raise several generations at all ranks who take equality pretty much for granted. The Army has a faily high intermarriage rate across all groups - except across the officer-enlisted divide; that is absolute anathema. It's regarded either as a form of bestiality or child molestation.

Won Joon Choe

Kenji,

You describe my mother's mindset. It also happens to be mine as well--I will probably disown my children if they marry non-Korean.

Won Joon Choe

Kenji,

You describe my mother's mindset. It also happens to be mine as well--I will probably disown my children if they marry non-Korean.

rwilson

slighltly related to the above comments:
part 1: http://www.livejournal.com/users/imomus/112052.html
part 2: http://www.livejournal.com/users/imomus/112210.html
part 3: http://www.livejournal.com/users/imomus/112462.html

..of momus on being "nipposexual"

john

Won Joon,

Hey man, be nice to us!

What, I can't be your son in law?

John

Won Joon Choe

LOL, John. I make exceptions for friends. You bring the financial security for my daughter, and I shall gladly give her to thee.

razib_the_atheist

a friend of told me that a chinese friend told him that his daughter could only marry someone who was chinese. that meant

a) someone whose ethnic origin was chinese
b) anyone + PhD

Mrs Tilton

A friend of mine is married to a Korean woman. He told me of his trepidation when travelling to meet her parents for the first time so he and his fiancée could gently break it to them that he is not Korean (he is German, and looks it). They gulped hard once or twice, he said, but then got their heads round the idea. They are now very pleased with him and regard him as an honorary Korean, as it were.

Inceidentally, my friend's wife is very pretty, with the 'petite form' and 'demure face' Andrew describes above. But people who make the mistake of assuming she is 'easy to dominate' learn (after a brief interval in which they receive the arsekicking of their lives) to regret this assumption.

Won Joon Choe

It's slightly off topic, but do you remember the discussion about bisexuality we had, Kenji?

Take a look at this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/05/h...5sex.html?8hpib

The comments to this entry are closed.

Notes for Readers