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May 07, 2006

Comments

Randy McDonald

"It's easy to forget, given the vehemence with which the Koreans single out Japan for condemnation, that they've suffered aggression from other neighbors on a scale far outdwarfing Imperial Japan at its worst, and more recently at that."

Outdwarfing Imperial Japan? In what context? Manchukuo wasn't exactly a cakewalk for its unfortunate subjects, after all.

Abiola

One would think you'd know enough to stop embarrassing yourself with such incredibly ignorant statements by now, but when it comes to Japan your brain seems to shut down. Newsflash: Manchukuo was *not* part of Korea (you know, the nation under discussion?) and Koreans were actually active participants in the subjugation of that bit of territory. Your bringing up Manchukuo in the context of Korea is as stupid as my pointing to General Custer as an instance of American brutality in Cuba: it establishes at the very least that you don't know your way around a map of the region you're so eager to say such ridiculous things about.

Oh, and by the way, when you're able to establish that the Japanese killed anything close to 2.5 million inhabitants of Manchukuo, please be sure to pass your information on to the East Asian historians of the world. Then again, I won't be surprised if you conflate the region with all of China next, seeing as you've already done the same with it and Korea.

Chuckles

[...To quote the Wikipedia page from which I lifted it...]

The link goes to the picture not to the Wikipedia page article.

Abiola

The link goes to the right page. The image isn't from a full-scale article as far as I'm aware.

Steve Edwards

You refer to Kim Jong Il in your post. But wasn't Kim Il Sung responsible for these massacres in the 1950s?

Julian Elson

The full scale article(s) such images are referenced in appear in the "file links" section of the image page. In this case, it appears in the Korean War article, about 3/5ths of the way down.

Abiola

"wasn't Kim Il Sung responsible for these massacres in the 1950s?"

Er, yes, good catch. I *really* need an editor.

Jim

Someone pointed out the same psychology at work in Canbodia, where the Thais tend to get a pass and the Vietnamese never get a break for nearly identical behavior in the never-ending blame game. Historically China was the "protector" of Korea. Actually it was just that the Koreans have always acted like they secretly wished they were Chinese - lexical borrowing, theories of government, manners,etc - and looking down on the Japanese, and grabbing any pretext or opportunity to do it, is just part of the package.

As for your final comment; the Korean attitude towards the Chinese is puzzling unless you understand why a dog will lick the hand that beats it.

Meh

For one so vehement about history, you are quite sloppy with your facts. Attributing massacres of civilian forces at Daejon to Chinese forces which you have attempted to do is sheer ignorance at best and deliberate manipulation at worst. If the caption and time frame for that photograph is correct, it would have been at the latest early October and carried out by remaining elements of the North Korean army in Taejon after the Inchon landings and breakout from the Pusan perimeter. Chinese communist forces did not engage the UN until October 25th and the offensive had not reached South Korea until January of 1951. While Seoul was once against lost to communist forces, the Chinese offensive stalled along the 37th parallel, some miles north of Daejon

It seems quite a stretch to blame North Korean political killings on her allies, particularly at a time when her allies were not even involved directly in the conflict. Using your logic, the United States can also be held to be guilty by association of being involved in the murder of tens of thousands of civilians by South Korean forces.

Abiola

"For one so vehement about history, you are quite sloppy with your facts."

Nowhere as sloppy (let alone as selective) as you clearly are with the truth, even on my worst days.

"If the caption and time frame for that photograph is correct, it would have been at the latest early October"

Typical sophistical rubbish from a communist apologist. Regardless of the exact timing, did those North Korean troops arrive in the south all by their own, without any aid and assistance from anywhere else? Where exactly did Kim Il Sung and company get their military training, in the US marines or the Imperial Japanese army? Who kept these murderers alive to slaughter and starve to death millions of additional Koreans if not the Chinese? You're so full of shit it's incredible.

"It seems quite a stretch to blame North Korean political killings on her allies, particularly at a time when her allies were not even involved directly in the conflict."

Oh, I'm sure the fact that this aggressive war was only launched and then sustained for 3 years with the prior endorsement and subsequent massive support of North Korea's mass-murdering "allies" is nothing to "blame" them for either; how awfully judgmental of me! Heaven knows genocidal purges of "antirevolutionary elements", "wreckers" and "running dogs" were unknown in the havens of liberty which were Communist China and the USSR, and the Norks must have come up with such monstrous notions all on their own ...

"Using your logic, the United States can also be held to be guilty by association of being involved in the murder of tens of thousands of civilians by South Korean forces"

Rubbish. Not a *single* person in the Korean peninsula would have died in combat were it not for Mao and Stalin's all-out support for a communist takeover of the south, something you mendaciously gloss over. That South Korea is a prosperous democracy while the DPRK is a starving totalitarian hellhole is just another bagatelle we ought to look over, right? Not like we can blame China for that, can we?

But what am I saying? To expect honesty from shills for China's communist tyranny, and for South Koreans' blindness to its devastating consequences for their peninsula, is more foolhardy than trying to cool a can of soda in a furnace. Chaps like you know how to scream and shout about a Park Chung Hee or an Auguste Pinochet, but when it comes to paying attention to the far more heinous deeds of the likes of North Korea's Kims, China's Mao and so forth, all of a sudden you come down with amnesia.

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